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  1. #41
    Member LordGriffon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynthion View Post
    NF with it's general ease of travel (though larger) tends to work out to more action.

    OF tends to actually feel larger without a Speed 5 or better. What I saw happen on Uthgard was every pug group broke apart after 2 wipes simply because they didn't wanna to wait/run for another half hour.

    I certainly understand the need for other things to be finished first however. Just beware. OF is very much an 8v8 playground. You might end up losing your casual player base.

    My suggestion would be to consider something similar to the NF assassination missions. Also for the love of god allow RP while dead. That was one of the biggest reasons the player base split on Uthgard. Even if you managed a couple kills vs an 8man the guys that died early in the fight still got nothing.

    RP for keep takes/defenses should be there from the get go as well. Lets face it casual/pug groups very rarely win vs VOIP 8man groups. They need a way to keep some sort of an RP income that isn't just hunting for solos... which just ends up costing you players from both PUGS and solos.

    Also consider something along the lines of the occasional RP related event quests. Running supplies from point A to point B for a small RP reward would give a casual a way to knock out a bit of RP... while giving stealths some fun hunting. :P


    Fair warning I tend to toss out a lot of ideas just to keep discussion going. If anything useful comes out of it, great. If not w/e. I think as long as discussion is open good things can come from it. Basically why I quit Uthgard.
    Right on. I agree with most of your proposed QOL's, but even the ones I don't agree with, I am not opposed to, just merely neutral on. I've been supporting this project since day 1. Even though I am a hard core player, I too am a huge fan of the casual and I fight extremely hard for things that help them. The casuals is what makes up the bulk of a healthy population. Keep the casual's happy and we get a great server to play on. I too also left Uthgard during their last beta, 1 week before they went i50 because of all the crap they were doing that hurt the casual player. I refused to support any project that does what Uthgard did.

    I am lucky that I have gotten a lot of opportunities to personally speak with staff here. So far they have not indicated any custom qol's or features that would hurt the casuals, but rather the opposite. I've also helped to GM on private dol servers (we never listed them) and I know how much work it is to implement certain changes. So when, I think it was Galizur up above, they mentioned the work involved in building NF from scratch, they weren't kidding.

    Basically, anyone can go to that dol site and download the latest server code which has NF/SI/TOA already pre-loaded with mobs, correctly placed or not. It's just a matter of clicking on certain boxes yes/no for whether the players get access to those areas. That particular dol base code has been out for a couple/few years now from what I've seen. The problem is, as Galizur mentioned, it is not a simple thing to just plug and play that code into what Origins has anymore. While Origins was still up this past year for their last round of "beta", they were using that code I believe as I saw nearly every exact same bug that Uthgard had in its beta, and that code I am pretty certain had the option for NF/SI/TOA (Origins turned on SI while Uthgard turned off SI).

    As far as Uthgard goes.... To me, their story doesn't add up. They say they are using re-written code, but I sit here and wonder if that really is so, and/or what the hell is rewritten when I saw the exact same bugs on Origins this past year along with seeing those exact same bugs on 2 other private dol servers where we got the latest server code from. Granted, Uthgard may have done something to allow for more players without crashing but then again, even with supposedly rewriting their code a few years ago after getting their asses wiped by this project, they had plenty of time to get SI up and running out of the box for Uthgard 2.0 (btw, I was the first one on their forums to use that term). So it's been near 11+ years now for Uthgard's existence and they still haven't put out SI-- makes one wonder why there are some singing the praises of the staff there, especially seeing as which a certain one by the name of ASSydos claimed he would quit that project if they couldn't get SI out before 2017.... Just saying.

    And we have trolls here getting upset for some made up "non-transparency" going on here just because staff hasn't posted a bi-weekly. So fucking what? If the community actually knew the amount of work that has to get done to build rewritten code from scratch, then I wouldn't blame staff for not posting an update but once a month. But I digress.

    I can see New Frontiers happening here. When, I don't know and haven't talked about with staff. But all indications for me is that the door is open for that possibility. As far as the rp rewards and missions, I am pretty certain that those will be in as I was pretty adamant about the need for them to be there to give a bone to the casuals to chew on, which as you stated above, brings them out to play, which gives reasons for groups and 8 man's more reasons to come out. When Uthgard stomped on my request (along with the assinine trolls who jumped on that bandwagon to harass me) I told the staff there, fine... don't implement these rvr features at your own risk, but don't be surprised when your population drops like a rock and I will not be a party to this. That day I quit and haven't been back since. I had also predicted that by the end of their first month, they would lose 80% of their population for their draconian ideaology ruleset. I was close, as according to the dol site, in Feb. 2017, Uthgard lost a tad over 75%, dropping from 4200 to 1100 and their numbers have only gotten worse since.

    I was only 5% (and a few months) off my prediction but Assydos/Trishballicker didn't like the truth being posted there as they deleted my post that had the link and snipped screen shot of the graph showing that huge drop in one of many threads where the community was complaining about the mad drop in population.... I guess the media nazi's over there didn't want anyone knowing what the facts were.

    Here? I don't see those kinds of reactions from staff, but rather the staff working hard to listen to what the community wants, as evidenced by all the polls that are here now. Uthgard never did anything like that, nor has any other supposed serious server either at that. I believe, and have since Genesis's inception, that we are going to get the most bang for our (free) buck from this server when it does come out.

    I am going to repeat a prediction I made some time ago that I posted on Uthgard's site about 2 years ago --
    "If/when another server that comes along that can, at least, halfway compete with Uthgard, Uthgard will go down in flames losing the vast majority of its population in 2 weeks. Question here is, will Blue rage quit/delete his database again?"

    The reason why I did that was to motivate Uthgard into changing their ways. Unfortunately the Uthgard staff is so hard hearted, they can be compared to the pharaoh (believe to be Akhetaten) of Egypt during Moses time. And like that hard-nosed Pharaoh who refused to listen to truth and reason, Uthgard will crash and burn when this project comes online. I can literally see the staff there, along with their brown-nosed licking trolls screaming foul and wondering wtf has just happened... but they can't say they weren't warned.

    Uthgardstats.jpg
    Last edited by LordGriffon; 06-10-2018 at 10:20 AM.
    -Providing "dribble" satisfaction for every troll's swallowing desire, including tsujin and ceen.
    "And that's the bottom line... 'Cause Stone Cold Griff Said So!"

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordGriffon View Post
    Right on. I agree with most of your proposed QOL's, but even the ones I don't agree with, I am not opposed to, just merely neutral on. I've been supporting this project since day 1. Even though I am a hard core player, I too am a huge fan of the casual and I fight extremely hard for things that help them. The casuals is what makes up the bulk of a healthy population. Keep the casual's happy and we get a great server to play on. I too also left Uthgard during their last beta, 1 week before they went i50 because of all the crap they were doing that hurt the casual player. I refused to support any project that does what Uthgard did.

    I am lucky that I have gotten a lot of opportunities to personally speak with staff here. So far they have not indicated any custom qol's or features that would hurt the casuals, but rather the opposite. I've also helped to GM on private dol servers (we never listed them) and I know how much work it is to implement certain changes. So when, I think it was Galizur up above, they mentioned the work involved in building NF from scratch, they weren't kidding.

    Basically, anyone can go to that dol site and download the latest server code which has NF/SI/TOA already pre-loaded with mobs, correctly placed or not. It's just a matter of clicking on certain boxes yes/no for whether the players get access to those areas. That particular dol base code has been out for a couple/few years now from what I've seen. The problem is, as Galizur mentioned, it is not a simple thing to just plug and play that code into what Origins has anymore. While Origins was still up this past year for their last round of "beta", they were using that code I believe as I saw nearly every exact same bug that Uthgard had in its beta, and that code I am pretty certain had the option for NF/SI/TOA (Origins turned on SI while Uthgard turned off SI).

    As far as Uthgard goes.... To me, their story doesn't add up. They say they are using re-written code, but I sit here and wonder if that really is so, and/or what the hell is rewritten when I saw the exact same bugs on Origins this past year along with seeing those exact same bugs on 2 other private dol servers where we got the latest server code from. Granted, Uthgard may have done something to allow for more players without crashing but then again, even with supposedly rewriting their code a few years ago after getting their asses wiped by this project, they had plenty of time to get SI up and running out of the box for Uthgard 2.0 (btw, I was the first one on their forums to use that term). So it's been near 11+ years now for Uthgard's existence and they still haven't put out SI-- makes one wonder why there are some singing the praises of the staff there, especially seeing as which a certain one by the name of ASSydos claimed he would quit that project if they couldn't get SI out before 2017.... Just saying.

    And we have trolls here getting upset for some made up "non-transparency" going on here just because staff hasn't posted a bi-weekly. So fucking what? If the community actually knew the amount of work that has to get done to build rewritten code from scratch, then I wouldn't blame staff for not posting an update but once a month. But I digress.

    I can see New Frontiers happening here. When, I don't know and haven't talked about with staff. But all indications for me is that the door is open for that possibility. As far as the rp rewards and missions, I am pretty certain that those will be in as I was pretty adamant about the need for them to be there to give a bone to the casuals to chew on, which as you stated above, brings them out to play, which gives reasons for groups and 8 man's more reasons to come out. When Uthgard stomped on my request (along with the assinine trolls who jumped on that bandwagon to harass me) I told the staff there, fine... don't implement these rvr features at your own risk, but don't be surprised when your population drops like a rock and I will not be a party to this. That day I quit and haven't been back since. I had also predicted that by the end of their first month, they would lose 80% of their population for their draconian ideaology ruleset. I was close, as according to the dol site, in Feb. 2017, Uthgard lost a tad over 75%, dropping from 4200 to 1100 and their numbers have only gotten worse since.

    I was only 5% (and a few months) off my prediction but Assydos/Trishballicker didn't like the truth being posted there as they deleted my post that had the link and snipped screen shot of the graph showing that huge drop in one of many threads where the community was complaining about the mad drop in population.... I guess the media nazi's over there didn't want anyone knowing what the facts were.

    Here? I don't see those kinds of reactions from staff, but rather the staff working hard to listen to what the community wants, as evidenced by all the polls that are here now. Uthgard never did anything like that, nor has any other supposed serious server either at that. I believe, and have since Genesis's inception, that we are going to get the most bang for our (free) buck from this server when it does come out.

    I am going to repeat a prediction I made some time ago that I posted on Uthgard's site about 2 years ago --
    "If/when another server that comes along that can, at least, halfway compete with Uthgard, Uthgard will go down in flames losing the vast majority of its population in 2 weeks. Question here is, will Blue rage quit/delete his database again?"

    The reason why I did that was to motivate Uthgard into changing their ways. Unfortunately the Uthgard staff is so hard hearted, they can be compared to the pharaoh (believe to be Akhetaten) of Egypt during Moses time. And like that hard-nosed Pharaoh who refused to listen to truth and reason, Uthgard will crash and burn when this project comes online. I can literally see the staff there, along with their brown-nosed licking trolls screaming foul and wondering wtf has just happened... but they can't say they weren't warned.

    Uthgardstats.jpg
    Most of this is my exact feelings as well.

    I was one person asking about biweekly updates, not because I want transparency or not that I even want them biweekly, I am scared the project will be dropped and my last hope of a decent DAoC server will go down in flames. I just hope for a bone every so often just letting me know it is still being worked on.

    As far as Uthgard goes, I go back every 6 months or so and ask on the forums if they have bumped up xp gains or helped with the sitting between fights, and the last time I did this just a few weeks ago they locked my thread and I was squelched from the forums for a week. if you read my post I wasn't negative in any way, I was just asking a simple question. Go figure.

    Well, here's hoping this server makes it to an open beta that I can start playing on and working on helping it to reach live status.

    I will give whatever support I can whenever I can and hope for the best =)

  3. #43
    Member LordGriffon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    Most of this is my exact feelings as well.

    I was one person asking about biweekly updates, not because I want transparency or not that I even want them biweekly, I am scared the project will be dropped and my last hope of a decent DAoC server will go down in flames. I just hope for a bone every so often just letting me know it is still being worked on.

    As far as Uthgard goes, I go back every 6 months or so and ask on the forums if they have bumped up xp gains or helped with the sitting between fights, and the last time I did this just a few weeks ago they locked my thread and I was squelched from the forums for a week. if you read my post I wasn't negative in any way, I was just asking a simple question. Go figure.

    Well, here's hoping this server makes it to an open beta that I can start playing on and working on helping it to reach live status.

    I will give whatever support I can whenever I can and hope for the best =)
    Quik,

    I think I may owe you an apology due to some miscommunication on my part, and I appreciate you not going for the throat as a response. I didn't mean to appear that I was saying that you or Rynthion were a couple of the trolls asking for more transparency. I also did not mean to compare you or him to them either. I should have been more clear about that particular statement.

    Can we as users and future players ask about possible updates? Sure we can. You particular guys were not the ones I was referring to as the trolls that keep harassing the staff in that manner. I hope you can see that in the context of that message, but I understand if you may have thought I was taking a shot at you. Please understand, I was not.

    About Uthgard, for which I sometimes refer to as 8v8thgard (due to how draconian the staff there is towards implementing QOL's that help casuals), I too have suffered from asking certain questions, and bringing up certain points -- even long before I had a beef with the staff there. But in response, they shut me down, which encouraged their resident elitist dick licking trolls to hop on board the bash-Griff train. Initially I was not trying to be rude, or mean-spirited, but brought up valid points while providing links to sites, such as wayback and allakahzam's as resources for proof of my points. In return for my good faith attempts to try to get uthgard's staff to understand that they were missing a ton of opportunities to get things right while keeping/adding in a few features that would have helped the community, they removed my profile.

    That was when my war with them began. To this day it floors me that they think they are successful when in all actuality, they are putting out the same numbers now that they were putting out when Genesis came on scene. Genesis killed Uthgard in 2 weeks flat.

    Genesis did it while having sub-par equipment compared to Uthgard.
    Genesis did it while having sub-par code compared to Uthgard.

    So what was it about Genesis that gave them the edge over Uthgard back then? It was simple... It was the staff (minus Cody) and the casual friendly ruleset.

    When Origins launches Uthgard will no longer have an edge with equipment or code. They never had an edge with staff, and the community knows it. So when Origins launches again (this time, to stay up permanently), what will happen to Uthgard? Who knows... but if history is any kind of indication, it won't be good.

    As far as that other project that some trolls here keep trying to claim that just because it may launch first that Origins won't succeed...that's a bunch of crap and they know it. They are only saying that out of fear of the most likely scenario that not only Origins will bring in a bunch of players back into the DAOC dol community, but because of that, the ones on Uthgard will get tired of playing on a low pop server, and the ones on that other project with the i50 type ROG ruleset will grow weary of that and will come here to play on a server that will be close to what the community actually wants -- a ACCURATE (yes that's right, I said accurate cause anyone who has done any kind of research and homework knows uthgard has a ton of accuracy errors) Classic DAOC experience with the QOL's the community has been screaming for years.

    Neither Uthgard nor that other failed-in-the-past-/will-fail-again i50/ROG project will be able to compete, and that is EXACTLY what those trolls are afraid of. They want to rule their little play grounds and they know they can't succeed in ruling their playgrounds on a server with a large population. As the community gets larger, the trolls get ran out cause no one wants them around.
    -Providing "dribble" satisfaction for every troll's swallowing desire, including tsujin and ceen.
    "And that's the bottom line... 'Cause Stone Cold Griff Said So!"

  4. #44
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    I strongly believe what could make this server different from others would be their decisions regarding multiple accounts (and/or npc buff merchants) and class improvements.

    Multiple accounts il banned on most of classic shards (well, the one I know, I agree).
    I won't add another debate, there is already a poll with good arguments (from both sides).

    Some classes have been modified longer after 1.65 patch. Most of thoses changes are on hybrid section and doesn't limit to determination RA change.

    A server deciding to add those two changes in its QoL would be a benefit and won't add to the "same rules, same server" list.

  5. #45
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    I took a while to read every post in this thread, and I'd like to make a contribution to the wave of ideas and suggested methods. Back when Live was done by Mythic and before the EA takeover of ultimate PvE destruction, I was an avid solo player one week, a dedicated guildie the next week, and a dedicated duo-player with an online friend for the rest of the month. Plus, I have a RL wife, who as sweet as she is, plays in Hibernia because of the elves, and I like to play Midgard. We have only one household computer.

    With Live, we could have multiple accounts because they were paid accounts. Only two, one for her and one for me. With the rules of Uthgard and other freeshards, she's out of luck. Heck, I just found out that Uth has a 7 day realm switch wait, and it isn't listed anywhere on their rules, forums or homepage on how to even start this process. If you're not 'in the know' then it's a hidden thing that the staff doesn't want to share. I should know. I send one of their admins a private message asking for clarification, and there has been no response. So totally uncool.

    But now I've found this place, and there's a chance of DAoC greatness again!

    Solo Play and Grouping:
    Some days I just want to be in control of my own destiny. No drama, no group arguments, none of that. Most games punish players for their independence, but such gameplay lets me recharge for the times I do full groups and guild events. It's not about being anti-social, but about recharging my batteries for the occasional melt down I must mediate when 100+ people in a guild love to argue about how a class should be specced or the world falls apart. All of this is part of the experience.

    What would I love to see done? Instead of Task Dungeons, which I never thought was bad, but some folks balk at them. So why not expand on the /whisper task system with the named guards? They love to send you from one side of the zone to the other for a serious experience boost, but they have only so many kills to offer per level, and some of them stop offering all together once you hit a certain level. Nix that. Offer a task-line quest list. Kill one for glory. Hunt down two for better rewards. Seek and assassinate a named yellow con for a stellar bonus. Also, make it so that more guards actually offer these tasks, and have them available from level 1 to 50. They won't offer tasks to people in a group. So why would anyone want to group? Because group benefits for experience are better! This will allow for player options. No one will melt when you can choose to solo or group as your own play style demands.

    Realm Access:
    Because of the cheaters out there who abuse the system, folks like my Wife and I are punished for it. A 24 hour switch timer would make it okay to a degree, but make it obvious, please don't hide it. I can see where my wife wants to play a Hib on Saturdays and I get to play my Mid on Sundays, so make the timer switch-thingy easy access. It'll sting somewhat when she gets up in the afternoon from the computer and says, "I don't want to play anymore. You can have the computer." Well, no DAoC for me until the next day? At least I don't have to wait for a whole week, and that's only if I know the hidden process.

    The Race to RvR:
    This has always been the end goal. How we get there is important. By playing our characters through the levels, training them up and gearing them as needed, we not only learn our specializations, but we have invested fun and time into those characters. Things that are given to you for nothing have less value than the things you earned for yourself. I'm not adverse to playing to 50, but I'm not a guy who thinks it should be so dang punishing. I'm all for working to level up quicker, just as long as we have the time to enjoy the learning curve. If we get from A to Z too fast, well, they'll be RvR food for those who know their specs a bit better.

    That's my 2 cents. It's nice to meet you all, and I hope this is a game that flies above and beyond what Uthgard has done to their players. With contempt, I might add.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gherick View Post
    I took a while to read every post in this thread, and I'd like to make a contribution to the wave of ideas and suggested methods. Back when Live was done by Mythic and before the EA takeover of ultimate PvE destruction, I was an avid solo player one week, a dedicated guildie the next week, and a dedicated duo-player with an online friend for the rest of the month. Plus, I have a RL wife, who as sweet as she is, plays in Hibernia because of the elves, and I like to play Midgard. We have only one household computer.

    With Live, we could have multiple accounts because they were paid accounts. Only two, one for her and one for me. With the rules of Uthgard and other freeshards, she's out of luck. Heck, I just found out that Uth has a 7 day realm switch wait, and it isn't listed anywhere on their rules, forums or homepage on how to even start this process. If you're not 'in the know' then it's a hidden thing that the staff doesn't want to share. I should know. I send one of their admins a private message asking for clarification, and there has been no response. So totally uncool.

    But now I've found this place, and there's a chance of DAoC greatness again!

    Solo Play and Grouping:
    Some days I just want to be in control of my own destiny. No drama, no group arguments, none of that. Most games punish players for their independence, but such gameplay lets me recharge for the times I do full groups and guild events. It's not about being anti-social, but about recharging my batteries for the occasional melt down I must mediate when 100+ people in a guild love to argue about how a class should be specced or the world falls apart. All of this is part of the experience.

    What would I love to see done? Instead of Task Dungeons, which I never thought was bad, but some folks balk at them. So why not expand on the /whisper task system with the named guards? They love to send you from one side of the zone to the other for a serious experience boost, but they have only so many kills to offer per level, and some of them stop offering all together once you hit a certain level. Nix that. Offer a task-line quest list. Kill one for glory. Hunt down two for better rewards. Seek and assassinate a named yellow con for a stellar bonus. Also, make it so that more guards actually offer these tasks, and have them available from level 1 to 50. They won't offer tasks to people in a group. So why would anyone want to group? Because group benefits for experience are better! This will allow for player options. No one will melt when you can choose to solo or group as your own play style demands.

    Realm Access:
    Because of the cheaters out there who abuse the system, folks like my Wife and I are punished for it. A 24 hour switch timer would make it okay to a degree, but make it obvious, please don't hide it. I can see where my wife wants to play a Hib on Saturdays and I get to play my Mid on Sundays, so make the timer switch-thingy easy access. It'll sting somewhat when she gets up in the afternoon from the computer and says, "I don't want to play anymore. You can have the computer." Well, no DAoC for me until the next day? At least I don't have to wait for a whole week, and that's only if I know the hidden process.

    The Race to RvR:
    This has always been the end goal. How we get there is important. By playing our characters through the levels, training them up and gearing them as needed, we not only learn our specializations, but we have invested fun and time into those characters. Things that are given to you for nothing have less value than the things you earned for yourself. I'm not adverse to playing to 50, but I'm not a guy who thinks it should be so dang punishing. I'm all for working to level up quicker, just as long as we have the time to enjoy the learning curve. If we get from A to Z too fast, well, they'll be RvR food for those who know their specs a bit better.

    That's my 2 cents. It's nice to meet you all, and I hope this is a game that flies above and beyond what Uthgard has done to their players. With contempt, I might add.
    This sums up my life just about perfectly and how I feel about mixing up how I play DAoC.

    The only thing I don't understand is, why do people have to try to take things away from others who don't have the same playstyle as them>

    I am referring to task dungeons. If you don't like them because you want to group, please, don't do them and group all you want. I on the other hand play a lot solo just because I won't beg or whine for a spot in a group. I will send a few messages out asking if anyone has a spot but I won't waste my time looking for hours. Task dungeons allow me as a solo player an opportunity to get some xp/levels in a timely fashion when I don't have a group. I will always prefer to group, but it doesn't always happen.

    My point is, if you don't want to do task dungeons then don't, but why try to take them away from those of us who do use them to our advantage for some xp?

    On a last note, are you going to implement a /LFG channel to look for other players?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    This sums up my life just about perfectly and how I feel about mixing up how I play DAoC.

    The only thing I don't understand is, why do people have to try to take things away from others who don't have the same playstyle as them>

    I am referring to task dungeons. If you don't like them because you want to group, please, don't do them and group all you want. I on the other hand play a lot solo just because I won't beg or whine for a spot in a group. I will send a few messages out asking if anyone has a spot but I won't waste my time looking for hours. Task dungeons allow me as a solo player an opportunity to get some xp/levels in a timely fashion when I don't have a group. I will always prefer to group, but it doesn't always happen.

    My point is, if you don't want to do task dungeons then don't, but why try to take them away from those of us who do use them to our advantage for some xp?

    On a last note, are you going to implement a /LFG channel to look for other players?
    Perfectly said. Well done! I have seen posts where people state that if there are Task Dungeons, they won't play. I'm like, what? It's not a requirement, nor is it mandatory. For those of us it may benefit, more power to it. Sure, folks could have a dedicated group play style, but if Task Dungeons aren't their favorite, then they need to never go there. I look at it like this... if we make it harder for the all realms to level up, who will there be to fight when RvR ramps up? I'm not against making an effort to level, I am against not having all available options. When people close off options, they close off a segment of their player base, unintended or not.

    Again, well said. I couldn't have worded it better.



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