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  1. #31
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    Late to the discussion here, but Det 3 will not help hybrids. You are still mezzed or rooted for at least 20-25 seconds with Det 3 as opposed to 7-15 seconds with Det 5. If you're CC'd for that long then you might as well have no Det at all because your group is dead already. This is compounded by hybrids generally being more gimmicky, have less weaponskill, and often worse RAs. A Det 3 Reaver in a group with no Friar would be rooted by a Shaman for 34 seconds. THIRTY-FOUR! 84-45%=46. 46-26%=34. An Arms or Merc would be rooted for 15 seconds. So who's going to invite a Det 3 Reaver over an Armsman who has Det 5 and SB? Or a Merc with Det 5 and PF? You might take the Reaver if no other tanks are online, but reluctantly so.

    However, giving Det 5 to hybrids would be unfair and OP. So what is the solution? The hybrids would need more abilities (passive or active) to help them and their group survive, even if they do get rooted forever.

  2. #32
    Member Visigoth's Avatar
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    They do have more abilities. A rooted Warrior/Arms/Merc can't do ANYTHING while rooted. Except if someone is dumb enough to run up to them and wave so they can get slammed or something. Meanwhile, a Thane, for instance, can continue to cast and insta DD while rooted, thus giving them a role to do while rooted.

    Det 3 to hybrids isn't supposed to 'fix' them (whatever that really means). It's supposed to make them more viable in 8 man, not equal to pure tanks or pure DPS.

    Still an extra 20 seconds in CC is a big deal, but let's not act like hybrids (at least taking the Thane for example) is useless and helpless while rooted.
    DAoC | Uthgard | Present
    DAoC | Bors/Midgard, Kay/Hibernia, Bossiney/Albion | Past

    Awaiting DAoC Origins and Camelot Unchained!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boroggo View Post
    The same could be said for Midgard and the fact that they have the lowest number of classes to begin with. Once you take out the two RVR group useless classes (Thane, BD) you end up with even less choice. Then if you add in the easy endu regen that everyone wants (like Tire2/LW1 on Gen 1), then the Skald, who is borderline useful as it is, becomes another useless class. So of the pool of 12 possible mid characters, we are reduced down to 9. Its no wonder mids only ever run CCutter groups...

    I'm not against adding Det for hybrids as we tried it on Gen 1 but it had mixed results because people just didn't want to group them anyway. If they do add easy endu regen, then the paladin gets dumped from groups again anyway regardless of det.
    BDs are not useless in RVR. In fact, they are one of the best if utilized correctly, although this isn't really part of the topic. Any class can be useful and hybrids getting det 3 might not make them as good as a tank getting det 5, but CC is breakable again if you do it correctly. Root sucks, but isnt the end of the world if you have a competent group that can skirt it. Any group comp with good players can be great. Survive the root and not many people are surviving a levi spam.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visigoth View Post
    They do have more abilities. A rooted Warrior/Arms/Merc can't do ANYTHING while rooted. Except if someone is dumb enough to run up to them and wave so they can get slammed or something. Meanwhile, a Thane, for instance, can continue to cast and insta DD while rooted, thus giving them a role to do while rooted.

    Det 3 to hybrids isn't supposed to 'fix' them (whatever that really means). It's supposed to make them more viable in 8 man, not equal to pure tanks or pure DPS.

    Still an extra 20 seconds in CC is a big deal, but let's not act like hybrids (at least taking the Thane for example) is useless and helpless while rooted.
    Thats not true, all main tanks can pull out a ranged weapon to interupt while rooted. However hybrids like champ, paly and savage are limited. Champ and paly get one insta on a 20sec recast they can interupt with.

    So saying the thane or vw is the reason why hybrids cant have det 5 is silly.

    How about det 4 for hybrids except vw and thane with det3?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ownnyn View Post
    Thats not true, all main tanks can pull out a ranged weapon to interupt while rooted. However hybrids like champ, paly and savage are limited. Champ and paly get one insta on a 20sec recast they can interupt with.

    So saying the thane or vw is the reason why hybrids cant have det 5 is silly.

    How about det 4 for hybrids except vw and thane with det3?
    Pretty sure the Champion gets two interrupts with snare and dd. Being rooted is not the end of the world for a Champion (especially if you have determination 3 or 4).

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralin View Post
    Pretty sure the Champion gets two interrupts with snare and dd. Being rooted is not the end of the world for a Champion (especially if you have determination 3 or 4).
    Very true....2 interupts every 20 secs, vs the hero whos not only unrooted after 8 seconds....but can spend that entire 8 seconds interupting with bow.

    /golf clap

  7. #37
    Member Visigoth's Avatar
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    I never argued hybrids shouldn't have Det 5. Just that hybrids with Det 3 aren't helpless. They may need Det 5. They may not. I'm not really sure.

    I rarely see anyone ever pull out bows and stuff to interrupt. And a det 5 tank doesn't need to bother most likely as he or she will be unlocked within 10-15 seconds most of the time anyway.
    DAoC | Uthgard | Present
    DAoC | Bors/Midgard, Kay/Hibernia, Bossiney/Albion | Past

    Awaiting DAoC Origins and Camelot Unchained!

  8. #38
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    The main pt i hear stated over and over again is the hybrids can interupt or cast or whatever while rooted, and thus either dont need det or dont need det5. My point is that pure tanks have the ability to interupt just aswell as most hybrids, save thanes and vws.

    Do i think VW and Thanes need det5? Probably not. Do i think classes like paly and champ need det5? Unless other changes are made, absolutely.

    Det3 is a bandaid. Det4 probably is enough though. Expecially if they add in other benefits like the group endo reduction chant on champ or celerity on paly.

    But to be honest most of this has been discussed ad nauseam. Im pretty sure theyll go det3 just to keep purests happy.

  9. #39
    Member Visigoth's Avatar
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    I certainly don't care about purity to 1.65. God that was a disaster on Uthgard.

    As you point out, not all hybrids are created equal. I think realm timers should probably be reduced, at least Purge. Make Purge like 20 minutes, and give it to all classes for 4 realm points. How's that for an idea?
    DAoC | Uthgard | Present
    DAoC | Bors/Midgard, Kay/Hibernia, Bossiney/Albion | Past

    Awaiting DAoC Origins and Camelot Unchained!

  10. #40
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    4 Point purge for everyone makes alot of sense. Tanks bloody cant be cced for long as it is and get cheap purge!! Not sure I would want BOF/SOS/GP on 20 minute timers though strong enough already.



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